C5 Rodeo - Rough Stock
The BEST in the Business!
John Dowdy:
Hello and welcome to this week's Equinety podcast, number 136. We are swinging up into Canada/Montana, because we're going to be talking about something we've never spoken about here on the podcast, and that is rough stock. We're talking with Gillian Grant and Dale Kling here at C5 Rodeo. Welcome to the Team Equinety podcast.
Dale Kling:
Thank you, sir.
John Dowdy:
You bet.
Gillian Grant:
Thanks for having us. We're excited to be here.
John Dowdy:
Well, it's a pleasure. I'm excited about this one. Like I said, we've never had anybody in the rough stock world on the podcast. It was always one of those things where, when you look at rodeo rough stock, and we're talking eight seconds and like, "Well, how do you even know the product is working?" Because when we're talking about the Equinety Horse XL specifically. We'll get into all of that and the things that you guys have found. And we'll first get back, Gillian, you are the rodeo coordinator for C5. So tell us about your daily activities. I'm sure that's probably only one hat that you're wearing in the grand scheme of things.
Gillian Grant:
Yeah. As Dale and I both mentioned, we both wear a lot of hats, as do all our crew. We're quite busy. We have over 40 events on our calendar this year. So we are a company that not only do we provide bucking stock, but we also assist committees and other event logistics, production sponsorship, all things events that are tied with rodeo as well. So, yeah, there's a lot going on. You got to track these horses on their outs throughout the year, their statistics. We have a great breeding program, which I'm sure Dale can speak to a little bit as well. Of course, we're crossing the 49th parallel between the US and Canada. So there's a lot of things going on, lot of different hats. But it's a really great company and Verne McDonald has had a vision and it's really taken off in the past few years. We're just really excited to part of it.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that's great. And Verne McDonald, correct me if I'm wrong, but he started C5 back in 2010?
Gillian Grant:
That is correct. Yep.
John Dowdy:
So between the ranches in Canada and the States, it's around 8,500 acres. You've got 20 stallions, 150 top quality mares. Let's see what else you got going on. 700 head of horses, 100 bucking bulls. That's a lot of stock to keep up with.
Gillian Grant:
Yeah, it's a full time job for everyone. Yep.
John Dowdy:
Oh, well. And keeping people like Verne and Dale in check is also probably another hat one might be wearing.
Dale Kling:
That could be a story in itself.
John Dowdy:
All right. Well, Dale, you have the title of stock superintendent, but, again, wearing many, many hats. What's the day in the life of Dale and C5 Rodeo?
Dale Kling:
Well, actually I've been there from day one with Verne McDonald. He was across the ocean and I went up to meet him. He didn't get back on a plane in time for a meeting, but I stayed there a couple extra days just to meet the guy. We sat down at a kitchen table and started C5 Rodeo. I explained to him a lot of stuff across North America. I remember walking out the door, Verne said, "Well, we're going to go big or go home, Dale." And I was excited to hear that, although I've heard it a million times. But with Verne McDonald it was we're going to go big or go home.
Dale Kling:
And he's overwhelming with what he did in rodeo. I guess it's been a joint effort with a lot of people, but from buying ranches in the United States to the best bucking horses, raising a breeding program second to none. So I would think that C5 has been about the most proactive company in the last 10 years on both sides of the border. It's been a real privilege to be along for the ride.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, absolutely. Now obviously "go big or go home" in your line of work, you're looking at the big game ultimately in Vegas, which is at the NFR. How many years have you guys been or had stock at the NFR?
Dale Kling:
Ironically, Vern will tell you this story, too, is I told him that within the year we'll have stock at the NFR. Keep in mind that Vern, Lac La Biche, is demographically way out in the middle of nowhere. You watch it on TV, you go to some Calgary Stampede and you're in awe. And Vern has told me several times he didn't really think that I could do it. And within the very first year we were at the NFR. We just jetsetted from that point moving forward in the last 10 years to two time… We won the World a couple times with Virgil and we've had three, four contenders that are recognized as world champions, although the status isn't labeled. That's a little political.
Dale Kling:
But, no, the guy has really did just more than anybody could have did in the last 10 to 12 years. Like I said, it was go big or go home. You dream of having a world champion horse, and like I said, "Vern, we've rodeoed enough across the world to promote that horse to win it twice and be runner up twice." Them are accolades that are only dreamed about. Of course, Vern did it in 10, 12 short years. And in the fact that we didn't really own a horse at that meeting across the table 10, 11 years ago.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that's pretty amazing.
Dale Kling:
Yes.
John Dowdy:
Now, Gillian, how long have you been with C5?
Gillian Grant:
I started with C5 just towards the end of 2015. I actually was putting on a rodeo and Vern said I hired him before he hired me. I'm so awesome.
John Dowdy:
Ah, right.
Gillian Grant:
Yeah. We're, well, seven years I think. 2015? End of 2015? Didn't ever imagine myself working for a stock contractor, but here we are. And, yeah, it's been a really, really fun journey.
John Dowdy:
Yeah. Now, Dale, you had talked about your rodeo career. How long was that career in and of itself before you met up with Vern or were you still going at it at that time?
Dale Kling:
No. No, I wasn't. I had a couple shots at being up there when I was rodeoing and I got hurt a couple times at the end of the season. So I never went to the NFR. I got involved with bucking horses at a young age and that was always a priority. I never really went to more than 40 rodeos a year. Just didn't go hard enough. A couple times I'd had a shot at the NFR. I went hard two times and unfortunately got hurt both times at the end of the season and fell out of there. But I'd been out of rodeo four or five years before I met Vern.
Dale Kling:
We met through the Breeders Classic Bucking Horse Sale. Of course, that's how our roads crossed. Been the leading sale in North America for 26 years and I produced it right here in North Dakota. From the biggest rodeo companies in the world to Vern McDonald, they've showed up on my doorstep and I've helped to make every one of them famous. But that's how I met Vern. Vern wanted to go to the top through the sale. He come down and that's how we got affiliated right from the start.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that's great.
Dale Kling:
It was the bucking horse sale.
John Dowdy:
Yeah. Now, which horse was it that ended up going to the top that first year?
Dale Kling:
Well, the first year Black Mamba was a horse. And a horse called Black Hills, I believe. We had four or five the very first year, which is a great number. It's been so long ago I don't even know all their… Makeup Face was one of the first horses that really carried the torch. A horse called Makeup Face. Black Mamba, I remember there. Cheyenne River. So right away, the very first year Vern got in contact with me, we started making up ground fast. And it was a horse called Makeup Face. It's still performing at the highest level. As we've seen here recently on the Cowboy Channel, he just won Clovis California. But that particular horse was the leading horse for C5, was a horse called Makeup Face. And he's still at that level.
John Dowdy:
Yeah. Now in this industry, what is a typical prime age, or how long do these horses at this level typically last, longevity-wise?
Dale Kling:
Well, I haven't really got all the studies, although I've got my finger on the bucking horse world in North America. I've had it on there because I've had to. I've created a job for myself in regard to that. But we're seeing a lot of horses, they're in their very much prime from six to ten years old, and then they're dropping off. It was a goal of ours to try to prolong the longevity of these horses because they're so valuable and so hard to get your hands on at that high level.
Dale Kling:
But we see a lot of horses come and go and have a four or five year… and at a high level. They're still around rodeo. They just at a lower level. But our goal was to keep them at a high level for as long as we possibly can. I'd really love to see the percentages across the world. It's something someone should do is the study of average age and how many peak years they have in it in each different breeding program, breeding-wise, and also horses that are just naturally born bucking horses.
John Dowdy:
Sure. That would be very interesting. Now, as we go along here, there's going to be… We talked a little bit about Makeup Face, which we're going to also talk about Virgil, Double D, Trump Card, and 5206. So let's just start off with Makeup Face, since you already mentioned him. How old is Makeup Face now and how long has this one been in action?
Dale Kling:
Well, Makeup Face is 16 years old now. He's had about eight, nine, ten trips to the National Finals. They still win the biggest rodeos in the world on him, but he's 16 years old and he was a D branded horse. He was raised here at my ranch. That's one of the first horses Vern McDonald ever bought from me was Makeup Face. Over the phone. Of course, Virgil was branded an F, which is two years younger than Makeup Face. That's our system is we go by the alphabet backwards. But he's 14 years old this year.
John Dowdy:
Holy smokes. So just in these two, you're already over the prime stage, supposedly, according to what would be normally considered prime.
Dale Kling:
Yeah. No, these two will be classified as modified real bucking horses with that heart. They didn't have a career where they were in there for a year or great for a year, great for two years. You know the longevity of them right now. And I perceive them to continue at this peak till they're 20. And it takes management and product and care and all that, but that's our goal.
John Dowdy:
Sure. Now speaking about Makeup Face, then we'll go to Virgil. What's Makeup Face's personality? Any quirks or things just—
Dale Kling:
All horses kind of get a quirk. He is just so confident. He loads on trucks, walks on, walks by you. He doesn't mind if you're standing next to him. He don't really want you just to touch him, but he's really gotten very gentle in his years. Like I said, he does squat a little bit in the bucking chute, not nothing considering the age, but that's kind of like getting ready for the Kentucky Derby. If you keep putting them in that box for 16 years, they're not all going to act like they're young and ready to roll. But, no, he's a very good natured horse. Loves attention. He'll stand there six inches from you, but doesn't want you to touch him.
John Dowdy:
Nice. And how about Virgil?
Dale Kling:
Well, Virgil's really calmed down. When he was a two year old horse, he was the craziest horse that we've ever sold. And a year later… And this is credit to Mo Betta Rodeo company. Mo Betta bought him out of one of our sales. But the story about Virgil, he was so wild and crazy that he jumped the back of the chutes at Cody and everybody was panicking about getting him out behind the chutes. Virgil ended up jumping back in the arena, trying to find a way out. They actually got pictures of it and it's just miraculous that nobody and Virgil didn't get hurt. Because he went on to be probably the greatest horse in the last 20, 30 years. One of them anyway.
John Dowdy:
Yeah. Now, I heard someone giggling in the background there. Gillian, do you have a story there?
Gillian Grant:
Well, I knew that that's what Dale was going to mention.
John Dowdy:
Oh, okay.
Gillian Grant:
Just Cody and there's this picture of him just up in the air. You'd think he was going to the masters. It's absolutely so true that Virgil is a horse of his generation. He's one of the greatest of all time. He's just… I don't know. I can't compare him to anybody else. He's just a really cool horse to see. And Mark Cotter, who has also worked with us at C5, he has been around, he was one of the original flank guys at Cheyenne. You used to just see him going on the back. He would say, "Virgil's one of those horses that you're only going to see one like that once in your lifetime. You don't come across those very often." From somebody like that, who's been around, that has merit to it. So, yeah, he's very, very special to us.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that's pretty awesome. Well, I think it was last year, I want to say, your mom Kathy had called me and she goes, "Hey, when you're watching the NFR, if you can see Virgil back there, he'll literally be looking out there watching the rodeo." Where all the other horses there might be laying down or looking down or whatever, he actually is watching things going on. Which I was not able to see this, but I thought, "Well, that says about everything right there." What a personality.
Dale Kling:
Yeah, them two, both them gray horses, we're proud they come out of Grassy Butte, both of them, and proud that Vern got them. But, like I said, I don't think we're going to see two of them like them very often. They love rodeo. They stick their heads above the chutes and they'll look back at each other. They're buddies. They can be split up for six months and as soon as one comes off the truck, it's almost like they know it. I don't know how animals know it, but they'll be thick as thieves, as close as they were within a matter of minutes. Sometimes they get separated from Montana to Canada because of the logistics, but, we all comment about it, when they get together the next day they're thick as thieves. So it's been a blessing for everybody, C5 and myself.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, nice. Yeah. No, that's great. And how about Double D?
Dale Kling:
Well, Double D was a horse that originated out of Riske Creek, British Columbia. Vern bought the horse at the Breeders Classic here from a company in British Columbia. He's been nothing but a great bronc. We don't even really know how old he is, the exact age, but he's one they want to get on everywhere. They won a round on him at the NFR, I believe, this year. At his age, to be at that level, bucking with six, seven year olds, others that are great horses, but they're six, seven years old. For a horse that old to be, they win the round on him, that's pretty impressive.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, I'd say. Let's move on to Trump Card. Now, he was injured a few years ago. Tell us about that. How old is Trump Card?
Dale Kling:
Trump Card was born in 2013, so he is nine years old now. That's a ranch raised horse from C5 Rodeo. They raised that horse up in Lac La Biche. Like I said, he'd have a few more accolades aside from the fact that he got hurt. And through the care of C5, nothing spared, Vern and Tyson Cardinal took care of that horse and nursed it back to health and wouldn't let it go back till it was time. But it's a fantastic horse. Issac Diaz was just 86 points in California on it and placed at Clovis. And had been to the NFR last year, look forward for that horse going back many years.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, fantastic. We'll get back into that injury, because we're going to talk a little bit about the Equinety product and things like that, but there's one more. 5206. What was going on with this one?
Dale Kling:
Well, that's another ranch raised horse by Vern himself. That's a product of their breeding program. Like I said, they're raising a lot of horses up there and they're coming up with some horses. This is a superstar coming on. Could be a world contender. Probably need a couple more years under his belt and settle down a little bit, but he's been fabulous across the world. They've won a few of the biggest rodeos. They can't even ride him. The horse just bucks. But it's really a testament to Vern and the breeding program they got up there. But he's a candidate for the… I'd say I'd put him in the Kentucky Derby and take a shot at him at throwing the match up, but we're in a different game. But he's got a good shot of becoming a world champion horse someday. It's just going to take a couple years.
John Dowdy:
Sure, sure. Now, C5 being around 12 years now, and then we were introduced, was it two years ago, I think? Something like that?
Dale Kling:
Yes.
John Dowdy:
Obviously you didn't use Equinety product prior to that, because maybe you didn't know about us or, who knows, whatever. Let me ask you this question first, do you use many supplements with your horses? Or is it just a really good feeding program and keeping them healthy as best you can that way?
Dale Kling:
Well, I think how the product come about was, as in the past, we had the best feeding program you could possibly feed horses. I think across the world, that's one thing we're recognized about is the quality of the horse flesh. But Vern was involved in racing at a time, and of course in the racing industry they're a little more advanced than, per se, the rancher in the rodeo industry. Not much. We're catching up fast. But he asked about these horses getting sore off the truck and injuries and was trying to do all that he could for a lot of animals. So we reached out and researched some supplements and got ahold of you guys, I believe. I think Gillian is involved about that. She was—
Gillian Grant:
Yeah, Kathy used it on her horse and told us about it and the rest is history. It ended up doing wonders for us. So thanks, Kathy and John.
John Dowdy:
Yeah. So my thoughts prior to us working together for the last couple years, when you get into the rough stock world it's like, "Well, shoot, these guys are just trying to hang on for dear life." At least that's what it looks like from the outside looking in. How would they even know if the animal is on Equinety Horse XL? Well, as you were talking about some of this different stock and the longevity, any injuries, you're talking about traveling… And, by the way, how long is your guys's season?
Gillian Grant:
Our season is year round.
John Dowdy:
Yeah. Yeah, so you're moving stock in and out and traveling all over the place. You're Canada, US, all four corners. Pretty much everywhere. So, yeah, that's a lot of movement, I would say.
Dale Kling:
That's as much as—
Gillian Grant:
And it… Oh, go ahead, Dale.
Dale Kling:
No, I said there's probably one other company would compare to in all of North America, there's probably one other company that's as busy as us. We're one of the busiest companies in North America. So we're testing. We can tell when horses are sore, horses are whatever. That's our business. But the traveling is a big factor in that. And animals get sore on traveling. Everybody knows that. So we were, like I said, back to your product, we were trying to hook onto something that would alleviate that.
John Dowdy:
Yeah. For those that are tuning in, the Equinety Horse XL, it's 100% pure amino acids. There's no filler, sugar, starches. And what it's doing specifically is it gives the body what it needs to stimulate the pituitary gland, which is the gland that releases repairing hormones, to keep it quite simple. Then the body's able to send its own hormones to its own problem areas. So in the performance horse world and rough stock, whether it be a trail horse, senior horses, breeding facilities, it helps in all of these situations because we're allowing the body to help repair itself from the inside out. So going back a couple years ago, and I think what we did specifically with C5 is I think we had sent some product up just to do some testing, I guess, with it, see what you guys could notice or even see a difference in these horses. Do you remember about how long it was before you really started noticing any changes and what that was?
Dale Kling:
Well, we noticed the horses were traveling better and keeping the weight on. That's one thing about traveling is you're worried about the weight gain on your horse, because your horse, if he hasn't been anywhere, he is going to really shrink up and not drink and not eat and not… There's all kinds of little things that come with traveling with any performance horse, or going on a trail ride. Just haul your horse across America and go on a trail ride. If he hasn't been there, he is going to shrink up and you're going to wonder why they're not keeping their energy or their weight up.
Dale Kling:
So when we start using the product, we noticed that our horses were staying healthier. That's the first sign that there's a difference is the health of the horse. Of course, rodeo's evolved to a point now where they're the most healthiest horses out there and everybody's taking good care of them, whether they're on whatever. I don't know what the other people do, but our concern was for the horses that were on the road health-wise.
Dale Kling:
And that's the first thing we seen, that they were holding their weight, they're eating better, and that's a sign that your horse is a hundred percent healthy in a sense. Maybe not a hundred percent, but it's definitely a sign for the health of the horse. So the product, we first noticed that the horses were eating better on the road, drinking water better, and showing back up at the ranch in the same condition they left the ranch, which is hard to do in the rodeo. After several trips of that, we realized that there has to be something helping, and we attribute it to your product.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that is pretty incredible. Especially the fact you've been around for 12 years, so you had a good 10 years of not having it, and in the last two years or year and a half using it, that's pretty well black and white in that scenario.
Dale Kling:
Yes.
John Dowdy:
Yeah.
Dale Kling:
Yes it is.
John Dowdy:
Yeah. So when we get back to talking about Trump Card that was injured in 2020, how long was Trump Card supposed to be out? Is that when you started product right away? Or how did that pan out?
Dale Kling:
Well, Trump Card got, unfortunately, hurt coming off a truck. And he's such a valuable animal that nothing was spared in the recovery of this horse. He was taken well cared of. And with Equinety, Vern's the type of guy that if that's what it's for, it's going to help heal that injury faster, we wanted to get the horse healthy as fast as we could. It was such an injury that he had to be taken out of the National Finals, unfortunately. It was kind of a blow that he didn't get to perform that year. But ultimately our first priority was to get the horse healthy.
Dale Kling:
That horse got fed Equinety. Like I said, if black widow spiders could've helped us, we would've got them. We were trying anything under the sun to speed up the injury to heal. Like I said, Trump Card did heal up a hundred percent and then did get selected again to go to the National Finals. But it was kind of a scary moment with that kind of horse. We treat them horses just like the Kentucky Derby winner. The very best horses are thought of as equal to the… Rodeo's our Kentucky Derby and the National Finals is the big race. So these horses are very well taken care of. That's what it takes to stay in the rodeo business. You got to have the product and as soon as your product is not performing well, you are out of a job.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that's right. Well, it's pretty fascinating. And, again, with the business that you're in, whatever it takes to get these horses back. And I tell people all the time, when it comes to the Equinety products, when you look at the benefits of what it's doing and how it's helping, I tell people it's not a miracle supplement, but it does some miraculous things. And in your case, when you've got a top feeding program, the top care, everything to keep these horses going.
John Dowdy:
And then with us being on the market for eight years, and we look at a variety of feeding programs, whether it's the top notch people, just whatever they can feed, and everything in between, given the Equinety product, within 30 days or less people are noticing a change. And it's the magic of amino acids. They're really just not getting the right amount of amino acids. So we're definitely blessed in that manner.
John Dowdy:
But, yeah, it's pretty fascinating getting, in this case, Trump Card back as quick as you did and qualifying for NFR. What was the thing that you were talking about with 5206 and the anxiety we were talking before we got on the podcast?
Dale Kling:
Well, one thing we noticed about horses, and each horse has its own personality, obviously, as human beings do, too, but horses really have their own personalities. This horse has really performed at one of the highest levels, kind of unnoticed yet, somebody who's just really coming on. But we were worried about that this horse not getting over some anxiety. We were worried the horse would buck so hard he'd hurt himself, or he'd hurt himself in the back pins or whatever. So, anyway, we kept feeding the product and we've seen there, again, the health-wise of the horse is a factor and that horse is healthy and goes in the chute and stands there. He performs just fabulous.
Dale Kling:
I don't know what it does in regard to that, I'm not that, but like I said, we've tried to notice all changes amongst a lot of horses and specifically our very best horses on the road. We've tried to figure out how to make them better and how the horse is performing. So we really kept a pretty good tap on how horses are performing, how they're reacting on the road. And if there was something better, don't get me wrong, if there was something come down, we'd be all for it, but right now we have really studied Equinety for our horses and we have proof in the pudding. The longevity, the…
Dale Kling:
When we get back home, we constantly look. Our goal is to have them weigh the same that they left the house from, even if they've been on the road for two weeks to a month. That is just a really hard thing to do. And we're seeing that we can do that with, obviously, Equinety. And the feeding program, but that in itself isn't always the answer, because some horses won't eat on the road. We attribute that to nervousness, ulcers, all kinds of stuff that we can possibly think of. You can have the best feed on the road, and if your horse don't eat it he's going to shrink and get unhealthy. So we really notice healthy horses and the fact that they're eating and returning home, and in the soreness and all that, because we see that on the road. So we really tested your product about as good as anybody.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that's pretty incredible. And I will say with being on the market for eight years, when it comes to horses that have stress, anxiety, are a bit spooky, we've heard a lot of feedback from people that have seen a demeanor change in as little as two or three days when it's stress, anxiety, or spooky. And I guess the question is is what's causing that anxiety or the stress, is it some little ache or pain or something going on? And then when you understand what the product is doing by giving the body what it needs to help repair itself, if it is a little ache or pain and now the ache or pain's not there, then the anxiety's gone. So it's a neat little thing that happens, but fairly quickly. That's pretty fascinating that you've been able to really look and document over the last year and a half, two years about weighing the same coming in as they went out. That's pretty incredible.
Dale Kling:
Yeah. No, it makes a difference. These animals perform like athletes, so they're sore. They're on different types of ground and you know there's some soreness to any event for the contestant, the horse, and we're trying to alleviate any of that. It's just understandable that a horse trying that hard is exerting themselves. They love to buck, these horses, though, too. We want them to be at that high level and have that fighting spirit till they're 20 years old or 25 years old. That's something we're proud that we're on that path with the age of some of our horses and they're still performing at the high level. So there's something to it and, like I said, the health of the overall horse.
Dale Kling:
And I think that's why we got involved with it was we heard the barrel racers were using Equinety. Of course, a barrel horse is very uptight and nervous. We all watch it prior to the event. And they go out and run their hearts out. I think that's what Kathy and them guys, that's how we got turned onto. We heard all the calf ropers and the barrel races were on it. It was helping their horses. So we transformed it into the bucking horses. That's why we did it.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's definitely a testament with your guys's feeding program and care and the longevity of C5. It's been a pleasure. We're excited to be partnered with you guys in our own little way. But sure want to thank both of you for taking the time to share your stories here on the Equinety podcast. So, Gillian Grant and Dale Kling, thank you so much.
Dale Kling:
Thank you.
Gillian Grant:
Thanks for having us and thanks for your support down the road.
Dale Kling:
Absolutely.
Gillian Grant:
We're really grateful.
John Dowdy:
That's great. Well, thank you guys.
Dale Kling:
Thank again, guys.
John Dowdy:
Bye-bye.
Dale Kling:
Bye.
