John Dowdy:
Hello and welcome to this week's Equinety podcast. We are swinging up into the great land of Canada. We've got Davina Warner on the call this week. Davina, welcome to the Equinety podcast.
Davina Warrener:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm actually just vibrating with excitement to talk about this product.
John Dowdy:
That is great, and you're in the first handful of eventers we've had as guests here on the podcast. We're excited about this. And just a little bit of your background, you're out of Ontario, you've got all kinds of things going across Canada. You compete in Florida, although last year was a bit of an anomaly with the things going on in the world. You're an international intermediate event rider, a sport horse development professional, as well as part of Team Phoenix.
Davina Warrener:
Yes.
John Dowdy:
All right. Tell us about Team Phoenix.
Davina Warrener:
Well, Jessica Phoenix is our top Canadian event rider for the past 15 years almost, a really long time. And she trains a number of professionals all across Canada, and I am part of that stream coming from her.
John Dowdy:
That is pretty awesome. And so you're based out of Ontario but you've got business in other provinces up there. Tell us a little bit about that.
Davina Warrener:
Yes, I'm originally from Alberta, from Warrensville, Alberta, which is close to Edmonton. I ran a pony club of 75 riders there for many years and then I moved up the ranks in eventing and moved to Ontario. I started competing, riding, and coaching in Ontario and then I advanced further into Quebec, into Sherbrooke and [inaudible 00:01:56]. I'm looking forward to even attending and serving more of Canada with my skills. My passion is to tell people about good things and that's why I'm here.
John Dowdy:
Nice. We are going to be talking about five different horse's case studies that you've done. And outside of last year, where in Florida do you come down to compete?
Davina Warrener:
Usually in Ocala, in the Anthony region, or next to [inaudible 00:02:32] or the World Equestrian Center in [Washington 00:02:36].
John Dowdy:
That is awesome. So for those tuning in that don't know a whole lot about eventing, give us an overview of what eventing is and all of the intricacies within there.
Davina Warrener:
Eventing is the best sport. I love it so much.
John Dowdy:
You don't have any bias, do you?
Davina Warrener:
I don't have any bias, I just love eventing. Everybody should event. Eventing is a triathlon, it's the same horse and rider combination so you and your horse have to these three phases. You start with dressage, and that is a competitive pattern which you get a score out of 10 for each movement. You get to prove your absolute precision with communication of your horse. And then the next stage is the day after, and that's cross-country. And if you're not a horse person or you have no idea about anything about eventing, just imagine a motor-cross course.
John Dowdy:
Oh boy.
Davina Warrener:
That's what cross country is. You go up to 600 and some meters per minute, which is very fast, over solid obstacles And through water, up and down hills and ditches.
John Dowdy:
Now you said [crosstalk 00:03:56], you just said solid obstacles, explain that to those wondering what you mean by that.
Davina Warrener:
Well, if you've ever seen show jumping with the colored rails.
John Dowdy:
Yes.
Davina Warrener:
They fall down if you hit them. Solid obstacles are made out of wood and they don't move and if you hit them you're the one that moves.
John Dowdy:
It's like a motorcycle accident gone wrong, but on a horse?
Davina Warrener:
Yes, exactly that.
John Dowdy:
Oh boy. All right.
Davina Warrener:
The horses are exceptional athletes at all the levels and the harmony between horse and rider is like no other sport, in my personal biased opinion. Because sometimes on cross-country days, especially at the upper levels, your life could be at stake, and the welfare of your horse. So you're trying very hard to be more than perfect than the level you're competing at and the horses just love it. They tear up the ground, they run hard on that second day of cross-country. Then they have a good night's sleep and you prep your horse and you do everything for it. And then on the third day, then they show jump. So then they have to have pristine finesse and jump all the colored rails without knocking any of them down.
John Dowdy:
Wow, that's incredible. I may have-
Davina Warrener:
It's a journey.
John Dowdy:
It sounds like, and I may have broken up your smooth description of the eventing, but when I asked about the non-moveable objects. But some of the other things, jumping over logs and different things, so you're running through water or jumping over things into water and what are some of the other interesting things out there?
Davina Warrener:
We do terrain and ditches and then also a lot of angles and skinnies. You don't see that in any other sports. So there's corner complexes and arrowheads that are shaped almost oddly or triangular, and you have to pick the side that you're going to jump and the horses are trained to jump with maximum efficiency so that they don't waste so much energy and time. And it's a timed event, you need to be inside the optimum time. So you can't go too fast or too slow, or else you'll get a penalty.
John Dowdy:
What you're saying is, you really have to be in tune with each other to meet those marks.
Davina Warrener:
Yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative). For sure.
John Dowdy:
After the day two of eventing and all of that, then they've got to have a good night's rest for then the jumping the following day?
Davina Warrener:
Yes, exactly.
John Dowdy:
Wow. That is incredible. I would say that's a bit more in depth than some of the other sports out there. So what are some of the-
Davina Warrener:
Well, I think it's the best, I love it.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, no doubt. Now with eventing, on day two, you're actually wearing protection gear and things like this?
Davina Warrener:
Yes, we are. We wear a certified helmet with fast proof rating for crushing, for being something stepped on. And also, they just brought with new technology for helping reduce concussion trauma, so that instead your helmet actually takes some shock absorption. And then we wear a crash vest similar to the crash vests worn at a rodeo, for any impaling trauma.
John Dowdy:
Bull riding comes to mind.
Davina Warrener:
Yes, exactly. And also over top of that, we wear an air vest. So if become detached from your horse, a CO2 charger goes off and expands the air vest and protects your spine and your body.
John Dowdy:
Holy smokes. I thought you were going to say [crosstalk 00:07:55]
Davina Warrener:
So your limbs are on their own.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, no doubt. I was thinking if you got ejected from your horse, that a little parachute comes out with a CO2 cartridge.
Davina Warrener:
That would be nice, although the air vest is fantastic. It doesn't check all the boxes because if you don't become detached from your horse, if you're stuck there for some reason, it does not fire. But it's probably 95% effective, I would say.
John Dowdy:
So what you're saying is, for the adrenaline junkies, this might be for them.
Davina Warrener:
Yeah, exactly.
John Dowdy:
That's awesome. Okay. So you're using the same horse that has to be trained in all of these three different disciplines, but all in one weekend?
Davina Warrener:
Yes, yes.
John Dowdy:
Wow, that's incredible.
Davina Warrener:
It's amazing.
John Dowdy:
What are some of the biggest challenges for eventing horses and their riders?
Davina Warrener:
Well, there are so many. There's many challenges. First of all, before the dressage phase, imagine dressage is like weightlifting. So if you were weightlifting in a gym, you'd be building muscle, you'd be gaining constant gains and that's what helps your performance. And then the next day you run off all of those gains, right?
John Dowdy:
Yeah.
Davina Warrener:
Because they're galloping and then they have to be a hurdler at speed, right? And then a terrain hurdler.
John Dowdy:
Yes.
Davina Warrener:
So we don't even have that. And then the third day, they need to maintain that amount of muscle to jump very carefully and with great form, which takes quite a lot of build. So I would say some of the biggest challenges are being able to build enough muscle that it doesn't slow you down on cross country, but still helps you with the other performance phases. Number two would be soundness of the joints, because obviously it's a little bit hard on them, depending on your horse. And then thirdly, the soundness of this feet, because we are running on whatever the weather offers. Whether it's bogged down rain, or if it's hard footing, or if it's whatever we want to cross track, they run through water, it has gravel in the bottom, your horse has to be overly comfortable on it's feet. So those are some of the biggest challenges. And then probably in addition would be, their stamina and their general comfort in their person, because it's a bit stressful, right?
John Dowdy:
Sure.
Davina Warrener:
So we do a lot of training to combat these things, but anything that helps the horses be more comfortable with the traveling, like getting in the trailer and going places. And then getting there and being at a new environment. And then, of course, the physical attributes of muscle building versus extreme cardio, that is just a constant contrast in your training that you're trying to balance.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that's a lot. Now, how long does it take to get a horse from when they're old enough to begin training to being able to compete in eventing?
Davina Warrener:
There are lots of lower levels of eventing so you could do that in their first year, over small levels. So they might start competing in their first [four-year-old 00:11:36] year and do well. They go through the motions, but it's not really a physical challenge for the horses I would say until they're reaching the top of their particular scope. Maybe preliminary level, so that would be about five years from their start I would say, or four.
John Dowdy:
About what age then would they be in their prime?
Davina Warrener:
Well event horses, I have to say they last a long time because of the nature of the training being so dynamic, it's really been great for the horses as far as their soundness, if they're ridden well and barring any odd injuries or something.
John Dowdy:
Sure.
Davina Warrener:
But I would say prime is between 10 and 16 or 17.
John Dowdy:
Oh, wow.
Davina Warrener:
It's quite a long prime and there are many horses, even at the Olympic level, that are still competing and ready to go when they're 20.
John Dowdy:
That's crazy.
Davina Warrener:
It's quite awesome. So when the horse is young, four to six years old, there's not a lot of social pressure to push them very hard because there's no point. There's plenty of room to compete throughout their whole life.
John Dowdy:
Right, wow. I would then assume that with that kind of training and the intensity that you're always looking for things to keep the horses at the top of the game. And I believe we met, was it maybe three years ago, two years ago? I don't remember now.
Davina Warrener:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John Dowdy:
And I think, Tommy G I believe, introduced us, which I've been trying to get him on a podcast for about five years. We'll keep pressuring.
Davina Warrener:
Yeah, actually it's interesting. I met Tommy G through you, but before that I knew Mike Robertson and he has been using the Equinety on his Quarter Horse race horses.
John Dowdy:
Yes.
Davina Warrener:
And he said, "Man, those horses are [inaudible 00:13:49]." So I was asking him about it a little bit. And then we met in Florida and you gave me the description of the product and I was sold.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, so I'm sure you're approached often with products and things, but when we met and I told you about the Equinety, of course you had a little bit of knowledge as you just said, but what were your initial thoughts? Was it, "Oh, here's another product", or were you somewhat open-minded to hear about it? And you're like, "Oh, that sounds really good." What was your first-
Davina Warrener:
Honestly, I'm always skeptical because they get approached a lot.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, I bet.
Davina Warrener:
I get approached by a lot of people who say this is the miracle cure and they say, "I want you to try this." And honestly, ingredients mean a lot to me because the horses last so long I want to know that it's going to be actually helping them long-term, right? And so if you get a good horse and you start developing it, you put your time and energy into that horse and then you end up giving it a product that that's not good for it in 10 years, it really matters in this sport. So when I first met you I was hearing the description and within a few moments, I was like, "Wow, this sounds amazing" because it's ticking all the boxes that every horse needs and I was blown away.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, so we're going to be talking about five different horses and I want to take just a moment for those of you tuning in. We're specifically talking about Equinety Horse XL, which is 100% pure amino acids. There's no fillers, no sugars, there's no starches, and there's no loading dose. So a serving size is 5.2 grams, which is like a teaspoon and you just put it right in their feed and they eat it right up. What's very unique about this product is, well, it's very easy to feed, it takes care of a lot of things and the reason being it doesn't fit into a specific supplement category.
In other words, it's not a recovery supplement, it's not categorized as a hoof supplement, or a soft tissue repair supplement, or shiny coat supplement. What it's actually doing is it gives the body what it needs to release its own repairing hormones and since we can allow the body to release its own repairing hormones, it's the body that sends its own hormones to the problem areas. So this is why it helps in so many ways and it's customizing to each horse. So with all of that being said, let's run through five different of your own case studies on five different horses and talk about how this one product has helped each one in different areas. You wanna talk about Prince first?
Davina Warrener:
Sure. It's been like just a remarkable journey watching this product have its effect on all these different horses. So one thing about eventing that I do love is that you can take a lot of different types of horses and if they enjoy eventing they become an event horse. So it's not one specific breed. But it's also a challenge because you can get a real fatty that has metabolic issues and you can get a real skinny bean that has weight issues and ulcer issues. And so finding products that work for the horses is really hard to find. So with Prince, I got him in Florida, and he was on a good farm, he had been fed well, he's a thoroughbred. He's a big thoroughbred and I think I got him when he was five. So he was definitely still growing, but he had zero muscle. It looked horrendous. There's some pictures that you guys have of him. But he had zero muscle. You never know when you don't have a lot of history on a horse or when you first start working with it.
So I started working him and I found that I just couldn't even ride him five days a week because he was losing muscle as fast as he was gaining it. And that was such a big problem because how are you supposed to work on gaining muscle without working on gaining muscle? So I started him on the Equinety after we met and, oh my gosh, it was so sudden. It was within two weeks. All of a sudden he had more energy. So I was riding him a little bit more and then all of a sudden he started to just build muscle from the inside out. And for him it took a little longer because he had so much muscle to recover from. And so it was probably about six months until he was what I would call a full-size horse.
John Dowdy:
Right, right. That's pretty incredible though. Six months, going from-
Davina Warrener:
It is incredible. It is. But for him, who knows what's going on deep inside and through his joints that [inaudible 00:19:02] has happened to. So a very talented animal, so much potential, and I started him on this, I was so impressed. And the other thing is I have a lot of bodyworkers work on horses and at the start he was getting so much acupuncture to try and help him with his muscle pain. And within a month and a half the bodyworker was just taken back. She said he has no pain, he has all this new muscle, no tears throughout his tissues, and he's happy. He's happy to be in work. And that was just a game changer for this horse. So he was with me for two years and then I sold him to a professional on the Canadian Olympic eventing team and he has him in line to replace her Olympic mount that she she just retired.
John Dowdy:
Wow. That's quite a story.
Davina Warrener:
So he came along way and I just can't thank this product enough. I was so excited about it. Before, I had about four and a half months where I was struggling with him before I was able to land him with the Equinety XL. His health was improving, his general health, and I just couldn't ride him. I couldn't build the muscle until he had this amino. It was amazing.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, and I think it's important too, I tell people all the time, this is not a miracle supplement. It's not the end all be all. It's not the magic pill or magic powder. However, we hear time and time and time again, you can be doing the best for your horse, whether it be through the bodyworkers, nutrition, with the training and all these things, and it could be a very, very, very slow process, or processes as they say in Canada. Do you see that? Process.
Davina Warrener:
Process.
John Dowdy:
But what we found by adding the product it helps speed everything up. And so you can get to where you want to go in a lot faster way and the horses are happier, they're healthier. And one thing you mentioned, I want to point out, you said the horse had a lot more energy and for those who are worried about their horses, all of a sudden being "hot", would you consider them being hot or just feeling better, which is where the more energy is coming from?
Davina Warrener:
No, because our next case study is Maple and I've never ridden a hotter horse than that horse and the Equinety actually helped her get calmer because she wasn't in pain.
John Dowdy:
Yes, so that's one of the things-
Davina Warrener:
The opposite happened with Maple.
John Dowdy:
I would say the best description I think we hear most often is this product helps balance the horse from the inside out. So whatever's going on, if they're hot, then what's making them hot? Well, that could be, as you just described, so it's helping to get rid of the pain and thing going on. So that helps balance them back to a normal level and if they're a little on the lazy side it peps them up because they feel better. So it's just helping to balance. That's awesome, so tell us more about Maple.
Davina Warrener:
So Maple I got around the same time, a little bit earlier than Prince, and she was in all sorts of disarray. She had just poor health quality. But again, very talented horse and she was hot as fire. Honestly, as a professional, I could barely ride it. I found this Equinety product and I put her on it and not only did I feel like it made her ovarian, her ovulation, less painful but also her feet were the biggest thing. So what I didn't realize is I think she was hot because she had foot pain because after about three months of being on the Equinety I started to realize that she was so much more consistent and she was in a lot less pain and she was a lot less sensitive for the farrier care. And, obviously, good farrier care I can't talk enough about, because that is honestly number one, but they can't do anything if you don't have any hoof growth, and if your horse has other pathologies in the foot like sensitivity or metabolic issues causing laminitic flares.
Good farrier care is the number one. So I have that, and it still was super difficult for him to get anywhere with her feet because they wouldn't grow, they were very sensitive and the horse was quite upset. So I started her on the Equinety about three months later, I'm like, "Wow, she's going to get much more consistent and calmer." And then the farrier commented where she's a lot less sensitive and now I can transition her from glue bonds to aluminum shoes, which was a big step for her. And by the time we hit about a year the horse was in steel shoes and no pads and we got x-rays of her foot and there was a centimeter of sole which was an entire centimeter more than she had. She was on the verge of having a big problem in her feet. And the biggest thing about Maple that I noticed as well, again, like you say, it's not just about the Equinety it's about the whole program. I feel like that is important to say.
I'm an educated horse person with a good mind for nutrition and this horse was very sugar sensitive, so again, you have all these different horses in an eventing barn that need all sorts of different things but they're all getting Equinety because it works for them because it doesn't have any sugar or added starch, she was not [inaudible 00:25:25] poorly from those substances, she just got the benefit of the pituitary gland being ignited. And so, it was just really cool because I actually had, when I was a teenager, a horse very similar and I got nowhere with it because I didn't know about this product. And you couldn't feed it what it needed because it would be too sensitive about it and it would founder, and you couldn't not because it wouldn't grow anything. I did see also great muscle growth in this horse but the foot growth and lack of sensitivity was astounding. When you're vet comes and gets an x-ray and they're shocked, it's a good product.
John Dowdy:
We've had a few, well at least one farrier that I know of that's been a farrier for 59 years, I believe and when he came across our product he's like, "Listen, I'm going to tell you straight up, I've seen it all, heard it all. I just don't believe anything." And I said, "Well, okay. I'll send you some and you tell me what you think." And it was about three weeks, "Oh my gosh, I am seeing things I haven't seen in 59 years". A big part of it is, just like you say, you could have the best farrier on the planet standing in front of your horse but if there's nothing to work with, what are they supposed to do?
Davina Warrener:
Exactly.
John Dowdy:
And so, going back to the Equinety Horse XL, we're giving the body what it needs to release the hormones from the pituitary and then the body is able to send those hormones to the problem areas. So when it comes specifically to hoof growth, sole depth, we've had people report to us they start noticing a thickness within 30 days, probably more toward the six week mark. When the horse is also dealing with arthritic issues and it's dangerous for the farrier to lift that leg because it's painful, this is one of the most often feedbacks we get from the farriers is, "This super dangerous horse now just stands there and I can actually work on this." So it's just really, really amazing, we're definitely blessed in so many ways. But again, it's not the miracle supplement but it's helping to speed everything up to get where you want to go, in a lot quicker way.
Davina Warrener:
Well, exactly. And that's the thing, that's why all these case studies are so interesting, because it's not that... It just speeds things up. And for me, with my program, especially if it's a horse that I kind of want to get into sport this year or the year after, it makes you start catching up and sometimes when you get them when they're a little bit behind physically and this product really helps them, and like you said, it helps the professionals. It makes them feel more comfortable. For me, the biggest thing is I want to see the horses happy with what they're doing, and if they're not there needs to be a change made to something. You're hitting all the segue marks because you said joint care and that is definitely my next one, my next case study. You're hitting all the segues perfectly.
I got this horse for my mom and she's a nine year old Thoroughbred coming off the racetrack in Winnipeg and she had raced a lot and had some real joint issues. She has two chips in the front fetlock, one that is a bit bothersome and the other one doesn't seem to be in the way. And she has arthritis everywhere and also sore feet. And so, I was a little disappointed.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, no doubt. [crosstalk 00:29:25]
Davina Warrener:
I was like, "Oh, no." But she's the sweetest little horse and so she started bonding with my mom and my mom is in her sixties and she's a great horsewoman but she has had some injuries so she really shouldn't have a wild animal. And I said, "Okay, we need to get all these x-rays." And so she got all these x-rays that said she needs surgery, she needs joint injections, and we were like, "Well, we want to wait on those for a second and just get to know the horse a little bit more." I sent my mom some Equinety and she started her on it and she said within two weeks the horse went from not even wanting to walk around the paddock to running around with her friend. She was that comfortable.
She kept her on the Equinety and started riding her and she was quiet to ride and way more comfortable, not as worried about things just because I think there was a lot of pain gone. And then she went back for x-rays and they said the arthritis went down within a month and a half, so it was about six weeks, more than 50%. The inflammation in her fetlocks was gone, the location of the one chip was shifted because the inflammation wasn't pushing on it. So they said, "Well, you kind of have a choice to leave because it doesn't seem to be bothering her." And her foot growth, of course, increased a lot. And so, a much happier horse.
Essentially riding-wise, she went from, like I said, not wanting to run in the paddock to running around, and I have video of that, it's so cute to watch. And then when she was under saddle she never got cantered because it just seemed like she was uncomfortable to volunteering to lope around very relaxed, which was just so cute and so nice to see a horse like that, that's really put in the miles at the track, literally, and just wants to enjoy her life and how simple, easy, and inexpensive it has been to just put her on Equinety and have her be so happy was just a god-send.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that's incredible. All right, I've got nothing else on that one.[crosstalk 00:31:58]
Davina Warrener:
It's great because this year she plans to take her to the mountains to do her mountain trip and I'm just so excited because she has a horse to enjoy.
John Dowdy:
Wow. Yep, that is really something. So far, and we've got two more to talk about, but so far the only thing you've done differently is just add this one little scoop in their feed of Equinety Horse XL.
Davina Warrener:
Exactly.
John Dowdy:
All right.
Davina Warrener:
I don't have anything else to say about that.
John Dowdy:
I know, and I laugh-
Davina Warrener:
Obviously, I'm a professional so I'm having access to quite fantastic feeds and care, just general great living environment. They get lots of turnout, they get grass, they get great hay, so that was all elements that were already in-place for Prince and Maple and then adding the XL just actually pushed them over the line where they started seeing improvement instead of just catching up.
John Dowdy:
And you segued now into something I want to say, which is what we've noticed, we've been on the market seven years with this product and we actually started in Canada back in 2014, but one of the things we've found through the years, you just hit the nail on the head with, at your facility they get the best care, best feed, best all-around and we can take that down to somebody who is trying to afford the best that they can. So my point is it really doesn't matter the quality, the nutrition that they're getting, it could be the best of the best, the creme de la creme. It seems as though, after seven years, every time they add this little scoop of Equinety Horse XL in the feed, they're all benefiting in some way, which obviously tells us horses are lacking in the right amount of amino acids.
Now, when you get into some of the high-end feeds that are sometimes loaded with amino acids, then people will say these already have all the amino acids in them. Well, the challenge with that is if the feed is a pelleted feed then it requires an extremely high heat to create those pellets which destroys the integrity of the amino acids and the thing that makes ours so unique is the combination and the way it's formulated, specifically because we're going after not a specific area like the joint or the hoof or the topline or muscle building or calmer. We're stimulating the pituitary to release the hormones and since we're allowing the body to release its own hormones it's the body that regulates everything which makes it 100% safe to give along with any medications or other supplements and that's why it's so awesome.
And even you get into some metabolic things with Cushing's and EPM and PSSM and all these things, we've just seen remarkable results and so I always like having a professional like yourself on to talk about this end of the spectrum, which you have access to a lot of things that a lot of other people don't. And so to be able to describe the changes that have been going on in your horses and speeding everything up is quite remarkable.
Davina Warrener:
Yep. I kind of think of it as if you have 10 things that you need for maximum horse care and the professional has 10, this is the 11th that really puts them beyond. And you're right, if someone only had five, they're still going to a six which is huge. And it has that huge improvement. I just love things that make horses better. Anything that makes the horse feel better is just amazing. I have tried a lot of things, and especially for a professional, it has to not test at an FEI or at a national show.
I don't use anything in my training or in my barn that could test, because two things. If it works, then I know I'm not going to be able to use it and then I'm just going to have something go wrong at a show, and I'm going to have to change things. And if it doesn't work, then it's a risk in my barn. If you have one horse you want to use it on that's not showing then it could touch something else and affect the other horse. So I just have a personal habit of never using anything, essentially outside of natural, inside my barn and Equinety fits right in because I can use it on everybody at any time and I don't have to worry, which is very important to me.
John Dowdy:
And that's a really good point, so breaking this down just a little bit more. When a horse eats protein of any kind, the protein molecule is too big to absorbed and so the body has to break that down into peptides and then break that down into amino acids where it can be absorbed. And that takes a lot of time to be able to do that. And so what we're doing is we're just starting off with the amino acids and the body doesn't have to do anything except absorb it, which happens very quickly, which is what we're after. That's the reason why it doesn't test, because they're amino acids. They're the building blocks of protein, and there's no fillers or anything else in there, and so that is awesome. Let's go to the next horse, are we talking about Moxie or Jay?
Davina Warrener:
Let's talk about Moxie because you had mentioned EPM and this is a horse that I got rather recently and I actually wanted to test it for EPM because it had major muscle quivers and got so stressed and tense that it would sometimes fall down at random. She's get so stressed that she would fall down. I am not kidding. I was like, "Oh my goodness." And she'd get real muscle quivers and muscle quivers are something that if [inaudible 00:38:35] had a muscle spasm you're not in control of it anymore and once it starts discarding routine and so she kind of would be out of control and it would scare her a little bit, therefore feeding her emotional anxiety. So there's the emotional element of her already being tense and scared and that's increased with her physical body being tense and quivering. So I wasn't able to really ride her safely and so I started her on Equinety and bout four days later I got on and there was no muscle quivers.
John Dowdy:
And after a week?
Davina Warrener:
Just four days.
John Dowdy:
Wow.
Davina Warrener:
And then I was like, "Oh, wow." Sometimes when you're doing a case study or your analyzing how something is effective you try again, you see what it is. So the next day I got on, no muscle quivers. So this horse, as soon as you put weight in the saddle, then she would feel physically weighed down and get quivers down her spine and back, so it was very obvious. Six days later I got on and I walked around and she had no muscle quivers and no weakness in her back and I said, "Oh my goodness, okay." So I took her off the Equinety for a week and then I went to get on and she sat down.
John Dowdy:
Ah, yep.
Davina Warrener:
And so I put her back on the Equinety, and again, this is a horse that her general health was coming up, I used great oils and seeds and hay was all good, she's on grass now. She's getting a shiny coat, she was fine that way but this particular element was not being solved. So I put her on the XL again and it's just been perfect ever since. She does not get that same response, and when she does get a nervous response, she's starting to realize that her body is not tense and reacting the way it used to. She's recovering emotionally from that feeling in her body, that sensation that was painful.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that is incredible. We've had people in the past that have a specific issue with their horse, they hear about the Equinety Horse XL... "I'll give this to my horse, oh look, the problem's been fixed" and then they don't give it and then the horse reverts back to the way it was before and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I got to out them back on." Whereas, I find yours was interesting because within four days and then you rode another however many days and then you decided to do your own test and take them off and they did. They went back to the way that they were.
Davina Warrener:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
John Dowdy:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Davina Warrener:
Well, I think just as a horse person, that's the only way we have... The horses can't speak to us. I really want to answer their exact question, so that was the point of taking her off of it. It was to see what exactly was helping and why is this thing improvement and I want to keep doing what it was, even though I could have kept giving her the XL but I wouldn't have had that specific information that that in particular was the ticket.
John Dowdy:
Yes.
Davina Warrener:
I would just assume or think that all of these things are what make her right, and so it's nice to have those specific things especially when I have [sale 00:42:29] horses. Honestly, I tell people this is what works for them. Don't stop giving that. Sometimes people call me in a month and they're like, "What happened?" And I'm like, "Listen, did you keep them on the XL?" And they're like, "Well, no. We ran out of our little 15 day supply." And I'm like, "Well, why did you do that?" I tell them this is what works. You've got to do what works for each horse. And so it's important to me to know exactly what works for the horses, especially [sale 00:43:00] horses.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that's funny. All right, rounding out with horse number five. What was going on with Jay?
Davina Warrener:
You know what? Jay's an interesting one because he has been healthy and a perfect angel his whole life. He's amazing. He is my top competition horse, he's never for sale. I'm going to go to the Olympics on this horse. He is spectacular, I've had him since he was four years old, he's nine now. He's strong, he's relaxed, he's mentally unbeatable. He's got all these great qualities to him and I never saw a problem but I met you with the Equinety and I used it on Prince and I loved it so I said, "Why not, I'll give it to Jay." Normally, part-way through the year, around August, we have one big FEI and at that time I would say Jay is starting to get a little tired from all the competing through the season, and the year I started him on Equinety I just very consciously noticed that he was not tired.
He was exactly the same energy, in a very relaxed way, through the whole season and he never had a [bout 00:44:27] where he was asking for time off or was feeling a little bit exhausted from the pressure. He just kept being the same. And then, especially at our FEI competitions, when they have to do all of that strenuous activity on cross-country it's a blast. They have a lot of fun but it's also very tiring, cross-country, and then the next day they have to show jump. Often times horses are just very tired and they come down in the show jumping, pretty much just because they're a little bit tired, and this horse was sailing over jumps on the third day as if he had not run the day before.
John Dowdy:
Wow.
Davina Warrener:
So this is really a case of a healthy horse becoming a superman.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, and it's something that we've heard a lot, and you might be the first one that has talked about this on the podcast, I've mentioned this several times but to have you talk about this... because at that level high performance horses and its like, well, what's really wrong with this horse? Well, there's nothing wrong with the horse. The horse is great, but then what did you find? It's the stamina, the recovery, the focus. They just recover super fast. In the rodeo world, where they're hauling all over the place through the week and traveling different states and things on the different weekends, a lot of times their horses will start to wind down because they're so tired from hauling and competing and everything else.
What we found in that world, same thing. Once they start feeding the horse XL their horses are just always ready to go and whereas sometimes they need to give a two, three, maybe four day rest and now it's a one day rest. But you even get down into just the everyday trail rider who just wants to feel more confidant because I would have to assume that if you know your horse is feeling great and they're not tired that would give you, the rider, more confidence as well, knowing that you're counting on your horse to be there for you.
Davina Warrener:
Well, exactly. You were talking about rodeo hauling. I know a lot of rodeo riders and they do so many miles and the horses just do that in the back of the trailer, so we need a product like that for those guys. And for our sports, in eventing, it's a triathlon so you needed in those three days, so that benefit is priceless.
John Dowdy:
Yeah, that is really great. If there's anybody tuning into this, and after they've listened to these amazing stories from a professional eventer and they're thinking to themselves, "Well, I don't know, that sounds a little too good to be true." Which I don't know how they [crosstalk 00:47:27].
Davina Warrener:
Not possible that they're thinking that at this point. It's not possible.
John Dowdy:
That's right.
Davina Warrener:
Let me tell you.
John Dowdy:
Is there anything that you'd say to them that you haven't already talked about that might get them off the fence to try the product?
Davina Warrener:
I mean, we've been pretty thorough but just try it and see. And you call me up and you tell me you're looking for but this is the thing, it doesn't test, there's no harm done, so try it and see what the positive effect is because I know there will be one.
John Dowdy:
And that's one of the other great things about the product, is it actually starts working in 24 hours. With horses that have stress, anxiety, or are a bit spooky we've noticed complete demeanor changes in as little as two or three days. You get into the couple week mark they feel better under saddle, their recovery and stamina. You get into the 30 day mark, softer, shinier coat. They're filling out, feeling better. Starting to have better hoof growth and so I would say the vast majority of people notice changes in 30 days or less, which is pretty remarkable for this tiny little scoop. And just in your five case studies you noticed all very, very quickly in all of them.
Davina Warrener:
Yes, exactly. It's been just awesome. I will comment that with the amount of stamina that I've seen just in our three days of grueling and intense competition, this should be a product that goes to the endurance world because those horses need this.
John Dowdy:
Yes, we do have a few of them out there.
Davina Warrener:
They're traveling hundreds of miles and they need it.
John Dowdy:
Yep, absolutely. We haven't found a horse yet in, whether it be a rescue facility all the way to the high-end performance horses and everything in between, that are all benefiting which is one of the reasons I started this podcast to help get these stories out there. It's been quite remarkable hearing your five case studies here and we really appreciate you being on. Davina Warner, out of Canada.
Davina Warrener:
Thank you so much.
John Dowdy:
You bet. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your stories here on the Equinety podcast.
Davina Warrener:
Thank you so much.
John Dowdy:
All right, thank you. Bye bye.